In this episode, we speak with Zeiad Shamrouch. He’s the Executive Director of the Middle East Children’s Alliance and he speaks to us about the work out they’re doing in Gaza, about the humanitarian and conflict crisis taking place within Gaza, as well as within Israel-Palestine and how people can get involved and support their work in Gaza.
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Stephanie: Greetings everybody and welcome to another episode of Nonviolence Radio. I’m your host, Stephanie Van Hook and I’m here with my co-host –
Michael: Michael Nagler.
Stephanie: And we’re from the Metta Center for Nonviolence in Petaluma, California. In this episode, we speak with Zeiad Shamrouch. He’s the Executive Director of the Middle East Children’s Alliance and he speaks to us about the work out they’re doing in Gaza about the humanitarian and conflict crisis taking place within Gaza as well as within Israel-Palestine and how people can get involved and support their work in Gaza. Let’s turn now to that interview.
Zeiad: My name is Zeiad Shamrouch. I am a Palestinian refugee. I was born and grew up in a refugee camp in Palestine. I came to the United States in 2008. And I’m working in MECA, Middle East Children’s Alliance.
Stephanie: So, how long has the Middle East Children’s Alliance been around? And how was it founded?
Zeiad: Yeah. Actually, MECA was founded by a great woman. Her name is Barbara Lubin and her partner, Howard Levine, 35 years ago. MECA is a nonprofit organization, where we try to focus on children in the Middle East.
We work in Palestine and Gaza Strip, West Bank, East Jerusalem. We work in Lebanon in a refugee camp with Palestinian and Syrian refugees. And any other refugees that are living in these refugee camps.
We have many projects and programs spread all over. And all these years with MECA history, they work with other, like, countries like Iraq during the sanction where we delivered medical supplies, and support the communities that are in need.
And right now, actually, our focus since, like I can say 15 years, we work more in Palestine because of the whole situation. And especially in Gaza Strip and West Bank and around Palestine and in Lebanon because of the disaster of refugees there – the Syrian refugees, Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon.
Most of our programs targeting children and communities. And, of course, when I speak about children, you target the moms, the family, and we have different educational programs, cultural programs. We have relief programs. When I speak about relief, like we distribute food parcels, hygiene kits, etc.
At the same time, we build water purification and desalination systems in Gaza in schools. Maybe you are aware of the water in Gaza issue that 97% of the water in Gaza actually, it’s contaminated. It is polluted. It’s very dangerous for children. And, actually, increase the death among young children as a result of that pollution of the water.
This is the project I like in MECA, because I also grew up in a refugee camp and I know what that means to have water. I used to shower one time a week because my mom, she used to carry the water on her head to bring it to the house.
So, the water project. We have a nutrition project. We have scholarship program for students to go to universities. We have many other projects for children. Cultural activities for children. We have what we call healing projects for children that are traumatized, especially in Gaza Strip and in Lebanon sometimes, during the war and the crisis.
So, we try to help the children to be children. Which I don’t think so we can do that. But we try to reduce the impact by living in this reality. And we try to offer them with psychologists, social workers, art stuff, and help them through using different kinds of methods to help the children to reduce the impact of the attacks, the wars, all this kind of stuff.
And we work the same in West Bank. We do have many other partners, and in Lebanon also, almost the same. But the main target for us is the children and who’s living around children, which is the community too.
Michael: Zeiad, what has changed for you and your work in the last few days with this horrible outbreak?
Zeiad: Yeah. It’s changed totally. All our programs stopped, and we work only in one thing, doing the relief work right now. We are in touch with our staff members on the ground in Gaza Strip and in West Bank. But mostly in Gaza. And with our partners on the ground, and we try to respond immediately.
By being a project like nutrition, you’ll have a kitchen where you cook food for them to have healthy foods. Right now, just we are trying to find whatever it is in the market to try to help the people, reach out for the people in need.
And yeah, since Monday [October 9], I can say, actually, Sunday for us. Monday in Palestinian time, our staff, with our partners, our volunteers, where they start packing the stuff and distributing food parcels and hygiene kits.
It’s shifted 180 degrees for us. On a personal level, because our colleagues, the people we know, our friends, and watching this terrifying situation, what’s going on in Gaza. And at the same time, try to do something to help the people. And especially right now, they cut everything. No power. No electricity. No water. No fuel. No medicine.
And you speak about 2.3 million people, they are living on 139 square miles. And you have six gates. Five gates controlled by the Israelis and one gate controlled by the Egyptians. And all these gates, it’s closed. And you have the military ships bombing Gaza and the Sea. So, it’s nowhere to go.
We were watching through the eyes of our colleagues, and not just the media. How these numbers in schools, the shelters, going up 10,000, 20, 70, 100. Now, the number in schools is close to 400,000 people. Already they left their houses.
In addition to that, the people, they are already moved from a place to another place, moved to be with their relatives or friends. Like for example, I tell you, my colleague Wafaa, she’s living in a house, in a refugee camp in the [Syrat]. Two days ago, I was chatting with her, and she told me they have 35 people in their house. Their house is designed only for five-six people to live there. Thirty-five. Today, the number increased to 60 people. Most of them children.
And I told her, “How you live?” She said, “Of course, the people, they think if they move 100 yards, maybe it’ll be safer.” And they came to her house and she tried to use all the resources. She told me no power. They have the solar panels. Sometimes they can be able to charge their phone, the internet. And she calls – we are living on their time. Whenever they call, we respond because of the communication issue. Yeah, but this is how it is, the situation for them. And it’s shifted a lot in our work.
We are worried about people first. The number is increasing in a crazy way, in every level. The people killed, the children killed, the women killed, the number of houses that are bombed. And still, there are tens, maybe hundreds of bodies. The people, they can’t reach out to them.
And just as I’m speaking with you, one of the hospitals, they received an order to evacuate. You speak about hospital, which they have in their parking lots, tents become – the injured people there. Now, they are ordering them to evacuate, to go where?
And this is the tragedy. And this is a scary time. We are really, really very worried. And this happening in front of the world. It’s not hiding. The cameras in Gaza, anyone can go to the TV and watch what’s going on in Gaza.
And yeah, it’s shifted us. We try. We try to do our best. And at the same time, to be honest with you, we ask our staff and volunteers, “Don’t take the risk. We don’t want anyone to be injured, if something happens to anyone.” But they said all the time, “What? Sit down, waiting? No. We prefer to do something for our community. If something happens, it happens.”
And actually, while I’m talking with my colleagues, like, I call it – it’s like – they are living like a game. It’s called the luck game. It depends on your luck, where you are at the wrong time and the wrong place. And your luck is dependent on that soldier and that plane, when and where he will push that button, where it will arrive.
And this is how hundreds of children, they lost their life, on their luck. Where they are standing because there is no safe place in Gaza Strip. And this is the worst thing. And this is why our staff, they said, “Yeah, we will take the risk. We want to help the people.”
And to be honest with you, when we said no water. Yes. What it means, “No water there.” Imagine you have a child, two-three months old. And this child, you change their diapers for them. But still, you want to shower, have water to shower the child. Imagine you have children 5-years-old. You need to shower them in one day, two days. In a few days now, some children, now this is the fifth day for them. No shower. No washing their head.
So, it’s not just the bombing. It’s that the other disease can spread among these hundreds of thousands of people and spread to kill them. Imagine one case, corona, it can spread. So, it’s the danger from everywhere. And I say it even – like the people in Gaza, they are surrounded by death. Wherever they look, they see death.
And according to them, what they tell me, they smell the death. But the truth, they choose to live. They want to live. And this is how it is for them.
Michael: Zeiad, I’m having a very strong experience listening to you because when I was teaching in Berkeley, I heard a talk by Sami Awad. And up to that point, I had been very breezily saying, “Well, you know, why don’t have meetings and get organized?” And he said, “We can’t go out in the street. How are we supposed to get organized? We have no phone system.” So, I’m hearing again the deprivation of the capacity of people. Not just to help themselves, but to live to help others.
Zeiad: Honestly, like I speak about our own experience, we experienced the wars in Gaza in 2008, 2009, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2021. So, we learn from our own experience. And the people there that are left. And here, I want to give the credit to the people that are on the ground. The people of Gaza, not just our staff or volunteers or partners. But the people of Gaza. They are very creative. And they are very supportive to each other, even in this difficult situation.
And as I told you, the people, they open their houses for anyone who wants to come. They think their house is safe. And they share whatever they have. And yeah, the people, they try to organize. In the West Bank, it’s a different case. Because the settlers, it’s not just the army in Israel. In the West Bank, it’s the settlers.
I am in touch with my nephews and nieces in Bethlehem. They are living in villages around Bethlehem, surrounded by settlements. All the time I’m scared. When they call, I feel scared. Because our imagination, our brains, psychologically, you are expecting all the time bad news to come because you are watching the bad news in front of you in Gaza.
And because of our work, you are aware of what’s going on. And all the time you are expecting some bad news to come. Imagine in Gaza Strip, how these people, they are working. Where they are, all these Air Forces – the airplanes, bombing Gaza, the military ships in the sea bombing Gaza. The towns around Gaza, bombing Gaza.
And it depends on your luck. You are like jumping. Like someone walking in the landmines. You don’t know when it will come, and how it will come. Even there were people killed and bombed while they are leaving their houses in the streets. People in the cars. Medical teams, they were killed. Twelve people, of them – among them, doctors, nurses, etc.
And you have United Nations staff members, they were killed. So, it depends. But on the other hand, people try to help each other. They try to organize in small level, support each other, take care of each other, and they cry together.
And this is one of my colleagues, he said that his mom start calling him, “Come, speak with your sisters.” They are all his family in one building. And he has a big family. And he entered that – all sisters hugging their children, and they’re crying. And the children, they are crying.
And he said, “Why?” And they said, “We are going to die, but we want to hug each other,” because every minute, every second they are expecting death. All the time, with the sound hits, they’re expecting death. And sometimes they joke with me. The best thing, they have their sense of humor.
And my friend, he told me, “My sister, they forget the science classes. That the sound comes after the light. [Laugh] The light is faster than the sound. They will be dead before they hear the sounds.” And this is the tragedy. He said it as a joke, but this is – wow. I didn’t think about it. But he told me like this. I mean like…
And yeah, people – honestly, I give them the credit. They make us do the work because they are very creative. They learn from their own experience. And for all of us, both of you, it’s the survival issue inside the human being. The human being tries to survive in very difficult – whatever we are going through in our lives, we try to survive, as we do.
And even you learn about yourself in this difficult situation, about your capacity, how much you can handle things, your patience, etc. And the sad part, the people of Gaza, no matter what they are going through, still they are living to see the worst. Every day, they still say it’s the worst. What about the previous worst? They say, “No. It’s difficult, totally.”
And sometimes I ask them, “Why is it difficult?” They say that the kind of bombs, because some bombs go like 20 meters, take the house down 20 meters. These big holes now all over Gaza when they bomb it. And yeah, it is hard.
Michael: I’m reminded of our friend [De-sel deen Abu-laish] who – his apartment was hit by a tank shell. And he had three daughters in there. Two of them died.
Zeiad: Oh yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Zeiad: Yeah. I remember the case. Yeah.
Michael: Yes.
Zeiad: Yeah, yeah. And now, how many? We have over 600 children right now killed. I’m saying, about two hours ago, the number. I’m sure the number increased. And yeah. It’s…it’s… I hate to speak about the numbers, to be honest with you. I hate numbers. Even sometimes with the media, to speak with the people about numbers. They are human beings, every one of them. And even they have families.
Yesterday, they showed something, “Live on Al Jazeera – Arabic”. Where they succeed to finding the child 2-months-old, and he’s still alive under the ruin of his house. But the sad part, his parents, his brothers and sisters killed. And they give the baby to his grandfather, which he’s still alive.
I was thinking, “Oh my God. How this – 2-months-old.” And it’s – yeah.
Michael: Zeiad, is the UN of any help?
Zeiad: UN is actually – they are demanding and calling and – yeah, UN, even they were very clear. The schools and United Nations, where the shelters, they were preparing to have 50,000, 70,000. Now, you have hundreds of thousands. They can’t help. They have very limited resources.
Even some of these schools evacuated too. And actually, some of United Nations schools hit, bombed. Any organization they are doing any work, if they distribute anything, it’s a help. The disaster in Gaza right now as a result of this assault on Gaza is huge. It needs many countries to jump together to do the help, just for the issue of water, to bring the people clean water.
Because I heard that some people, they can’t handle it anymore. They started drinking the contaminated water. And this is another – yeah. UN, they are trying and they are calling. And everyone is calling to have a ceasefire, at least for a few hours, so some stuff, they can route. But Israel, they were very clear. And what I see in the media, they want to continue bombing.
Even they don’t want Egypt to open the border, so some stuff can – like fuel or medicine, can get to the hospitals. Gaza hospitals now collapsed – collapsing. They have no capacity. No resources. Nothing. There’s nothing to offer.
And imagine – I was speaking with a doctor yesterday. He told me, “Here we are. Sometimes you want to look to the cases in the front of you. And which case you can save?” And this is the most difficult thing. And they told him how. They said, “We are like machines.” Even one of them, he told me two days he couldn’t sleep because he can’t sleep. And he wants to continue to do the work.
So, it is very difficult on every level. I don’t know the word difficult can describe it. Even people, they say, “We are watching genocide in a slow way.” And because the way you see the number of children or people killed increasing, increasing, the bombing everywhere. They are targeting every human being.
And I was asking about the people. They have pets, animals, farms. They told me, “Everything is killed.” Dairy farms, cow farms, sheep, or chicken, etc. Many, they are killed. So, it’s – I’m very careful when it comes to the international law and the law, etc. But it is… it is a very difficult situation.
And I think the international community – right now, the main role, just stop and give us the chance for the organization to help the people, to help them to survive. I’m speaking about people, children, women, injured people, etc. And give some time for the people to bury the dead people because there’s no space in the hospitals. They put the bodies outside.
Michael: What people don’t realize is when this illness, disease starts to spread from those conditions, the disease is not going to stay in Gaza.
Zeiad: You are right, totally right. Because now we are looking about the direct attack, the bombing, the shelling, the killing. This is what the people care. But they don’t care about the other kind of disease will spread.
Like how they will care about the psychological impact. The people, they are traumatized. The children, they are traumatized. And one of the cases, actually, one of my colleagues, one of their cousins. He’s 25-years-old. In 2014 attack, he was sleeping at home. They bombed the home. He wake up in the street. He was sleeping.
He woke up in the street, and he’s traumatized since that – 2014. Now any kind of sound, bombing he hears, immediately, he cannot speak. He loses the ability to talk. And he’s frozen. And imagine this continuous bombing. And they cannot leave him alone. They bought for him headphones, anything. Nothing.
And when you have generations that are traumatized from many wars and now coming to another war – like, we work with children to reduce the impact, I will say that. With different programs, all over Gaza. With moms, to help their children, how to reduce the impact on the children. The moment you try to do some progress, you have another attack to take you back to zero. But we will never stop because this is the necessary need. We need to continue to do it.
And when we speak about the disease – yeah. Of course, you have the disease related to the human being bodies. If you don’t have water, how this will impact you. If the bathrooms, if you don’t have water to clean the bathroom, if the people, they will not shower, if children will not shower, it will spread. It’s not just like one case. And this is where it will take, how it will impact the people in addition to the other psychological impact, addition to the other – what we call it – like geography.
Like when you have 10,000 people in a tiny school, any disease, it will spread and make it a disaster.
Michael: This is affecting us very strongly, as you can imagine. But I am remembering that we work with an organization called Nonviolent Peaceforce. And they go in to intervene as third parties when there’s a conflict. I don’t think they could get involved in this conflict. It’s too extreme. It’s too advanced.
But one thing I did hear from them is very often, when everybody else leaves a conflict area, their people have stayed. Nonviolent Peaceforce and Peace Brigades International. They’re not military people. They’re not armed. They have a little bit of training in nonviolence and they can go in. They will stay there when other people leave.
Zeiad: Yeah. It reminds me with happened in ex-Yugoslavia. Because when the war ended, it doesn’t mean it’s ended. The war lived for many, many, many years, inside people. I say that about myself as a human being and as a Palestinian refugee. I was born and grew up in a refugee camp until 2008, I moved here.
But I say it all the time. Israel destroyed both of us. I acknowledge that. I know it inside myself, part of me destroyed psychologically. And when I say destroyed, because the impact, when we were children, how we grew up, etc. And it doesn’t mean I changed the location, I am feeling better. When the people, they ask me about my life in America, I tell them in a simple way, “I access my freedom in two things. First, I can shower when I want. Second, I can drive where I want.”
If you speak about the freedom, these are the simple things. But as a matter of fact, the camps still live inside me. The nightmares still come back. I need to go to my psychiatrist. And now, when it comes to the fact of the war, the people living in war, this is the time after healing, helping, and supporting these communities to heal.
And because the violence – the violence is not just shoot the bullets. The violence, it’s destroying some time, the future. Many people, even if they are still alive, it’s not just killing them. Yeah. And absolutely, there is a huge need. But right now, the people, they need to survive. Survive as a human being because you are surrounded by death. If you escape the tanks, maybe they will catch you, but the airplanes. If you escape both of them, maybe the military ships.
And if you survive, maybe you’ll get a disease. And if you don’t get a disease, psychologically, you are already destroyed. And this is the future of 2.3 million people in Gaza. Most of them, they are children.
Michael: I’m afraid it’s also the future of many Israelis.
Zeiad: Yeah, we see that in the United States, the veterans, they go to wars. And when they come back, and how they are traumatized. It’s a huge issue all over the world. And Israel is – yeah, I can say, this is – the victim and the victimizer – the victimizer, sometimes they get that too.
But this is the war machine, my friends. War machine destroyed both sides. Who’s in the front, and who’s in the back. But in the front paid a heavier price, more than who was in the back.
Michael: So, what we want to know, Zeiad is how can we help? How can we, in particular, help? How can anyone help in the US to support MECA and to support the people of Gaza?
Zeiad: Yeah. The idea is to support the people in Gaza and what I can say – people, they need to raise their voices. They need to take a stand. There is no neutral position here. You are standing with justice or with injustice. No gray area. People, they need to take a stand. They need to. Because USA government, still, they are involved in this. Involved in a very strong way. And the people, they need to make this a pressure and take actions. There are different things organized.
And right now, for us, as MECA, it’s very clear for us. We are trying to raise as much as we can, funds to help the people in Gaza. We are doing work on the ground. I don’t know how long we can do. Depends on until the last bomb bombard or kilo of sugar or rice or whatever they have in the market, we will continue. And the people, they can learn more about what we are doing. They can go to our website, donate, or learn about other actions they can take. MECAforPeace.org.
Stephanie: Well, that’s great. Thank you so much for your time. Is there anything that you didn’t say that you feel like you want to get in before we sign off?
Zeiad: Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate what you do. And I appreciate you are standing in solidarity with the people in need. Need that. The only thing I will say, even when you are surrounded by death, we still, we can find some ways to live and to catch up with the light. Thank you so much for what you are doing.
Stephanie: Thank you.
Michael: Thank you, Zeiad.
Zeiad: Thank you. Have a good day.
Stephanie: You’ve been listening to Nonviolence Radio. We want to thank our guest, Zeiad Shamrouch, Executive Director of the Middle East Children’s Alliance. We want to thank Annie Hewitt, Matt Watrous, Bryan Farrell, to all of our listeners across the Pacific Network, thank you very much. Most especially thanks to our mother station, KWMR. If you want to find the show, you can find it at NonviolenceRadio.org. And if you want to learn more about nonviolence, go to MettaCenter.org.
Until the next time, everybody please learn everything you can about nonviolence and please take care of one another.